Connect Canyons
Ep 81: March Madness: Hoops and Hopes Advancing Female Athletes
It’s down to the wire for this year’s March Madness NCAA basketball tournaments and the women’s teams are getting as much attention, if not more, than the men’s this year. We sit down with two of Canyon’s head girls basketball coaches to talk about why they think there has been an uptick in interest in women’s sports. We also hear how they work with the young women on their team to not only flourish on the court, but to reach for their dreams in every aspect of life. From physical toughness to the capacity to develop strategies, these girls are learning life lessons as they shoot for three and represent their schools.
It’s down to the wire for this year’s March Madness NCAA basketball tournaments and the women’s teams are getting as much attention, if not more, than the men’s this year. We sit down with two of Canyon’s head girls basketball coaches to talk about why they think there has been an uptick in interest in women’s sports. We also hear how they work with the young women on their team to not only flourish on the court, but to reach for their dreams in every aspect of life. From physical toughness to the capacity to develop strategies, these girls are learning life lessons as they shoot for three and represent their schools.
Welcome to Connect Canyons, a podcast sponsored by Canyons School District. This is a show about what we teach, how we teach and why we get up close and personal with some of the people who make our schools great Students, teachers, principals, parents and more. We meet national experts too. Learning is about making connections, so connect with us experts too.
Speaker 2:Learning is about making connections, so connect with us. After 48 games, there are only four perfect brackets remaining intact of the 4 million entries for this year's Women's Basketball March Madness Tournament. Heading into the second round, there were 1,300 perfect brackets. After Monday's matchups there were 18. Then on Tuesday, sadly number four Gonzaga took out our University of Utah, ranked number five. Overall, those 18 perfect brackets became four. In the men's tournament, all brackets were broken after the 31st game. Both tournaments are now in the Sweet 16 stage and we're seeing the women's tournament getting a lot more attention these days. Welcome to Connect Canyons. I'm your host, frances Cook. I'm joined today by two of our high school girls basketball coaches Brighton head coach Kane Stokes and Corner Canyon head coach Craig Morris. Thank you both for being here today.
Speaker 3:Thank you for having us. It's a pleasure, excited, to be here.
Speaker 2:You know, as coaches you are working to help these young athletes excel on and off the court right Just become all they can be as a person, and I'm curious why you think there has been such an uptick in interest in the women's tournament this year and in women's sports in general on the national stage.
Speaker 3:I think that women are getting more attention in sports and I feel like they are not just seen in the past life that they have been. They can, they're seen as hoopers, they're seen as ballers, whereas before is like it's girl sports with the quotations around, it's like actually no, I know these girls could actually break some of the guys angles and can out shoot some of the guys. They're proving that. I mean, we watched with steph and sabrina in the all-star game this year and it was neck and neck.
Speaker 4:Like the playing field is leveling out I think the game has evolved and changed enough that now skill sets matter more and and just like coach, like we have females at all levels high school and college that are just incredibly skilled. And not to say that there wasn't skill in previous generations, but I feel like it was more just about physicality. And you hear all the old heads in the NBA like, oh, you just can't hit guys like you used to be able to. I'm like it's gone away from, like the brutality, the physicality which I enjoy a little bit of a good able to right. I'm like it's gone away from, like the brutality, the physicality which I enjoy a little bit of a good hard screen right Taking a charge, but like I believe that it's like the skill of handling the ball and shooting is what is dominating, like the headlines and the games right now. And our girls are just as good when it comes to skill. They're just. It might not be as physical, right, but I love the evolution.
Speaker 2:I think you make great points. You know it's. I think evolution is a great way to put it. We're seeing these girls are just making plays that just make you stop and go wait. Did she just do that? How did she? You know? How'd she pull that off so well? I think the game is changing. Like you said as a whole, it's not just about being able to take a hit, but that it's about the strategy and it's about working through the plays right.
Speaker 2:I'm curious if you've seen more interest in girls sports on the high school level.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately I have not. I wish that I had, I will tell you, with the caveat being when we play in smaller areas I don't know that you can even call them small towns, right, Hebrew is not a town anymore, but like we played at Wasatch, really strong crowd Anytime you play up at the, the Cache Valley schools, Ridgeline big crowd, Green Canyon big crowd, Like it is fun outside of that and in particular, if anyone that goes to corner canyons listening like it's pretty pathetic and I mean that in the nicest way possible.
Speaker 4:But there is zero support and or interest that I see at our girls games, unfortunately.
Speaker 3:I can count once, maybe twice, where we had something comparable to what the boys were having with the crowd, maybe twice, where we had something comparable to what the boys were having with the crowd. Most of the time, it's below 20 to 25 students that come to our games and I know that we want more people to come and the girls deserve the spotlight. And, coach, you tell me if you saw this. But it doesn't matter if you're ranked high, it doesn't matter if you're winning. It's still looked at as the air quotes girls' basketball, but it's like no, this is just as entertaining as the guys Were. They going to dunk it. You're not going to have as many dunkers now, but there are girls actually that dunk now, which you couldn't say that as often 20 years ago.
Speaker 3:But you have girls that pull up deep. You have girls that will post up, they will run and gun. They'll do the same thing that boys do. Why, why? Why don't we have the interest though? Yeah, I, I agree with him. With our brighton community, the parents are great, the, the girls that are friends, they come out. But like, why don't we have the student sections and the camo night and all those things? Because we're asking for it and we want people, we encourage people to say they'll come, but they don't show up interesting to me.
Speaker 2:I grew up watching, uh, the 1990s women's soccer team. Right and there it's, it's that team and it's there's the second generation team after that.
Speaker 4:That's really built up, that, that camaraderie that mia hams and yeah which one was brandy chastain on, I think we all remember that team and I don't know if that's considered one or two, but there were names. That's exactly it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you got the Mia Hams, the Brandi Chastains and now you have the Megan Rapinos and you have Amy Rodriguez who just retired from the national team. She's now coaching our Utah Royals here. It's discouraging to me as a woman to hear that we're not supporting our girls as they're growing up before they get to that national stage, right Like we need to get them there and to do that they need that support.
Speaker 3:Can I touch on that Please? So I have four kids. I don't know how many you have, craig, but we have four. My youngest is my little girl and I have three older boys. And it's interesting, we're talking La Roca, like the very low, like rec league right For five-year-olds, and my daughter would go and actually body people up and knock people over and she stole the ball even from her teammates, which you know, you want sharing is caring right, but like they're five, it's like hurting cash.
Speaker 3:Just let them play. And it was like, oh, we need you know. Her coach came and said, hey, let's play. Well, you actually share. We need to not take the ball from others. I'm like, just let them play. They're five. You don't want to take away that aggression and that natural instinct. She has three older brothers, Like you talked about it. Why do we shy away from contact in women's sports when they're younger? That's not actually the way the game is played. It's like seen as not feminine. I don't know. You all tell me, because I'm like that's part of the game of basketball or other sports is to be physical, and that's something I'm trying to bring to Brighton actually is increased physicality and don't be afraid of it.
Speaker 2:I feel like I can step in there as a woman having played sports, you know, through my childhood and things, I think you're right. I think there was this oh, they're girls, they may not be as tough, they may not understand that it's just a hit in a game You've got to jump back up. But watching these older women play sports as I grew up watching the Mia Hams they would just take the biggest hits and jump back up and jump right into it. I think it's not a matter of it's not a brutality, it's just a matter of having that physical toughness and I don't think we should shy away from that. I think that's a really physical grit.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I can't speak, I'm not quoting them, but I have heard that Emily Skinner, who was our uh miss basketball this year from Ridgeline, rumor has it that she grew up only being allowed to play with boys and playing on boys teams.
Speaker 4:If you haven't seen her play. She's box office, Like she is so good. And again, I'm not saying that it's correlation is not causation, right, I'm not saying because she played with boys, but I'm like it probably did have a positive impact, right, Like I've got to imagine that that helps because the game is physical right Now. I do still believe that skill. You can't just be a bulldozer, right, but like if you're not shying away from physicality and you have the requisite skill, like the game is so beautiful right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, we used to joke about NFL players taking dance.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You got to be limber right. You got to be able to move and dodge and then take the hit and get back up. You've got high school rugby teams. I watch the Brighton Instagram page for their rugby team all the time. I'm like it's amazing to see these changes.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I think that what's happening in sports is really cool. I, I have daughters, um, I also, we have five kids. I have three older boys and my, my two little girls, right, and my eight-year-old is, is is built more sturdy, I would say my, my six-year-old a little bit more dainty. So I tease him. I'm like you're going to be my power forward, your little sister's going to be my point guard, right, like this is great.
Speaker 2:You need both attributes. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4:And so, like they being around the game, like they love my girls at Corner Canyon, like they think they walk on water which they probably do girls right. But watching my two daughters look up to and admire, right, I think that that's really what we need. And people like Caitlin Clark right, they're bringing recognition and bringing excitement to the game, right. Like I hope that all of these young ladies, young women that are in Utah can find those athletes that they can aspire to be like.
Speaker 4:Right Now, life isn't all about sports, but why not? Why not dream? Why not push for that? Why not be part of that? And again, we have so much talent here. It's been so fun to watch and I coach club in the off season, and so we travel a lot and I take Utah girls all over the country and we play against a lot of teams that don't look like us, that play differently than us, and everything. But we're competitive and I know that there are a lot of club teams from Utah that are competitive clear across the country, right, and it's been really fun over the last five years to even have a sideline view of the changes.
Speaker 2:I'm really glad you brought up Kaitlyn Clark. She is one of the standout players of this tournament. She plays for the University of Iowa and I hear her name more over the last couple weeks and throughout this tournament than I've heard any of the male players even. I'm curious. You talked about your daughters watching your teams play, and I'm sure your daughters are watching yours as well. How are we doing more than just teaching these young athletes to throw a ball right? How do you want them to progress as young women, as young athletes, and become their own role models that they've been watching?
Speaker 4:Yeah, my girls don't love watching basketball on TV. Yet we're not quite there yet. So, like for those athletes, that I love to watch, and I think the women's game is wildly entertaining, but my daughters don't watch it with me. I think, though, like some of the things that that we're seeing with NIL, I think is pretty cool, like I actually really do, and that might be like an unpopular opinion in some areas, depending on who you're talking to, but I think Would you dive into NIL, for those who may not understand.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so the name, image and likeness rules now that allow athletes to be paid instead of just the universities, right, and so, whether they get endorsements, or sometimes you've had companies that'll come in and give money for every player on the whole team, whether that's women's basketball or football, but sometimes it's you personally, like Caitlin Clark it's. I've heard estimates that she made more than $3 million this year.
Speaker 3:Angel Reese was making more than a lot of WNBA players this year from LSU.
Speaker 4:Like really cool, right, and I think like at some point I'm in this category of I can't play anymore. We all age out of playing and so I'm like at some point, like you can get involved from a coaching standpoint, you can learn how to capture the attention and the demand and build a business around that and build a brand around it. So there are things that transcend just the game, that stem from the game, right, like we look at some of the largest brands in the world that we know in clothing and apparel Michael Jordan with Nike, put them on the map.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and similar things are happening now where you see these female athletes surpassing. I think there's three or four women's basketball players this year that have beat out the highest NIL male as far as just college basketball. College football is a different animal, but like on the basketball court and like that's cool, and so when I look at some of those things, I'm like I hope that my daughters, whether they play for me or not, whether they, who knows, they could dance, they could cheer, they could act, they could go whatever, like, I'll let them do whatever they want, even though I hope and pray that you know it's basketball. But I hope that what they're looking at is whichever sport you're participating in, wherever you're at, you have to learn how to set goals, you have to learn how to be held accountable, hold yourself accountable right. You have to be self-aware, you have to understand your role and where do I fit in?
Speaker 4:And I could go on and on about all the things that sports teach you and as you age out of sports like those are applicable no matter what career path you take, right, like, whatever that is, and I hope that that's what the girls that play for me are taking. I hope that's what my daughters are seeing is dad's too old to play anymore. But this is cool. He gets to be a coach, right, and high school coaches aren't paid very much, right, so it's not like a job necessarily, but they get to see me doing something that I love, right. That is beyond just playing a sport, and that's what I hope that my girls are watching is what opportunities like, what brings you fulfillment, what brings you joy in what you're doing and some of that might be sports related, but all of that can be learned from sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's really well put from sports.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think that's really well put as far as it goes with our own kids watching. My little girl's five and she likes to watch it on TV even more than the guys' game. You know when her attention span is there as a five-year-old, yeah, but she loves to come to the gym and actually do the warm-ups with the girls starting to go, doing the weave in between her legs and doing those things. She loves to be in the pictures with the girls when they're having fun. She wants to send messages on game day to encourage them. That was actually a big thing for our girls this year when we got started was messages from my daughter. That was cool to see.
Speaker 2:That's really cool.
Speaker 3:When it comes to what we want in our program. I want the girls to have a voice and an advocate and to build self-confidence. You know winning and losing is going to come and go, but if you can learn to be self-confident and able to say no means no to somebody and look them in the face and mean it, and to be confident in everything you're doing as a mom, as a student athlete, getting a degree, doing those things that's what Craig was saying about it. Transcending sports, that's what it matters. About it transcending sports that's what it matters. But don't get me wrong. We all want to win and that's a cost too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly it. At the end of the day, you know, on or off the court you're learning life skills that you're going to carry with you, no matter what happens. When you know the buzzer goes off and the game's over when the buzzer goes off and the game's over. I'm curious how you guys feel about the trajectory of women's sports. We're seeing more people interested in March Madness, in women's soccer, football, you name it. We're hoping to bring that into basketball. Do you feel like we're?
Speaker 3:making progress there. I was thinking we only have so many tickets that are even taken right or people are charged to get into games. I know that boys and girls basketball is and football is I don't know how many other girls sports are even charged to get in and I think that it sounds silly. But if it's going to make money, you build it, they'll come. You have a field of dreams quote there, but I think the it sounds silly. But if it's going to make money, you build it, they'll come. You have a Field of Dreams quote there, but I think the girls have an opportunity to make noise. But I think you have to do it consistently and that's what people want. You can't just be like a flash in the pan one good year. You have to show you're going to give people something to cheer for on a regular basis.
Speaker 3:I think Caitlin Clark has shown us that. But also, what type of a brand has she created? You see videos of Caitlin Clark playing against boys and doing workouts and people complaining. It's quoted that people complain she can't play in a guy's league and she crushed them. And you look at what she's doing now and how she's being an ambassador for the game. But look at all, what does she want to do? What does she want to aspire to? I want to inspire little girls to know that they can achieve their dreams. She's humble, but she's still hungry. As we say where I'm from and she's not settling, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:Born and raised in Utah. I've been here most of my life. So I don't know, I feel like I can speak to that a little bit. I think we're behind in this area. I don't know, I feel like I can speak to that a little bit. I think we're behind in this area, like we kind of are, with a lot of trends.
Speaker 4:If you will right, utah is known for being a you know a bubble state right, we're, you know whatever, that can be good or bad, but I think that we're behind. I think that it's catching momentum, like particularly in the Big Ten, right you?
Speaker 4:see it in the ACC right, some of the big conferences, the SEC right, with women's basketball, those three conferences, like the Pac-12, falling apart and changing. You know, half the teams going one way, half going the other, right, that's a little bit. We're not sure what that's going to look like yet for all the local teams here, but I think that we'll get there. I think the game as a whole and I think women's basketball as a whole, both of those are progressing and it's picking up steam and it will continue to do that. How long it takes Utah to catch up right Like I don't know long it takes Utah to catch up right Like I don't know. Like that's. I have no barometer for knowing. You know how we're going to. I don't know what we're waiting for. I really don't. But I see that we're slower. We're slower to adopt here, and that's at the collegiate level too.
Speaker 4:You look at women's attendance in the in-state schools versus men's and then the women's attendance in-state versus other conferences aforementioned, and we're behind and I don't know why that is Like I don't know exactly why. Hopefully you get enough of us fighting the good fight and sticking with this and we keep just leveling up when it comes to the product, if you will right. We're trying to teach these girls how to play basketball the right way, and they're working with coaches at a girls how to play basketball the right way, and they're working with coaches at a younger age that are doing the same thing, trying to get them to play the right way. And as the skill continues to come, eventually Utah will catch up. I just hope that it's faster than it feels like it's going to be.
Speaker 2:You brought up a good point with kind, you know, kind of the remapping of the Big Ten and the Big 12, and you know where are we going to be. I think now's the time right, if we're already in this uncertain phase and we're already going to have to transition to different conferences and things. Bring in the crowds, bring in the fans, you know, show the girls that we're all rooting for them.
Speaker 3:Agreed.
Speaker 2:How close are y'all watching March Madness? Do you have any predictions on the men's or women's side?
Speaker 3:I've been watching Duke and Coach Carol Lawson. She's doing great things. I don't know if anyone's seen her handle hard better. It's been really big. It's something I've actually talked to some of our girls about and some of the things actually Kaitlyn Clark has said Obviously Iowa's going to be big, south Carolina's going to be big, lsu a lot of familiar faces. Who's going to show up on what night and be hot? I mean, that's the name of the game. You tell me if you feel differently. Craig, you've got to peak at the right time and if people are having a great game, it may come down to who has the ball last or who's going to get the defensive stop. So I don't know. It's hard to bet against Don Staley. But what about LSU? What about Iowa? I think it's anybody's game still.
Speaker 4:It's been really fun to watch. I think LSU wins it all and I think Haley Van Lith will be the one that is the determining factor in that.
Speaker 4:I think that she's capable of a huge game and if she has it at the right time, I think that they need that. They need someone else to step up and have a big game. I love Kaitlyn Clark and if she's hot I don't know that anyone can really beat her, but that's my pick. And on the men's side, I'm a North Carolina fan this year only because Armando Baycott seems like he's been there for like a decade.
Speaker 1:And I just love it I love that you see all these.
Speaker 4:You know you look at Duke and Kentucky and all these one-and-dones, right, and Armando Baycott's on record saying I'm not the best player to be at North Carolina, right, but I love this place more than anybody else and so I'm like there's just something to like. When you're at a collegiate level, right, a high school level, you play for your school and it's a different level of effort and so, again, there's so many good teams on the men's side, but I love that. Armando Baycott played his entire career there, took the extra COVID year and, and he's still there, right.
Speaker 4:And so, anyways, I'm excited to see, but I just think that when someone's that committed to something, that's cool to me, I like seeing that.
Speaker 3:I'm going to disagree with you, Coach. I think it's going to be tough to beat UConn in the men's bracket, they're steamrolling. I love, being from Louisiana, that you showed LSU love. But it's hard for me to pick. But like, yeah, go Bayou Bengals.
Speaker 2:We won't tell your Louisiana family that you just went against LSU.
Speaker 3:No, no no, I didn't go against them. I did not go against them. I got to bleed purple always, but it's hard just to make a surefire pick there with so many talented ladies. Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, coach Morris, I think you brought up a great point about how he's there to play for his team. That's his team, it's his home, he loves it. I see that in our young athletes here in the Canyons District. They're playing for their school, for their community. You mentioned that small town, hometown, feel. You know, I think as long as we bring that home in the end of the day and support each other, I think our girls are going to go a long way.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. It's a game changer, right it is. You got to have skill, a lot of skilled players and teams in this state. The ones that I see that love where they play and they believe in being a team over individual. They and they believe in being a team over individual. They're hard to beat.
Speaker 2:They got their fans in the stands.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, coaches, I want to thank you so much for being here. This has been very insightful for me as a new addition to the district and learning about how our teams are doing, and I think you guys are making some big strides when it comes to letting these young women find out who they're going to be in the future. So thank you for your insights.
Speaker 3:You bet. Thanks for having us. This has been a lot of fun. I've enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Awesome and thank you for listening. If there is a topic you would like to hear discussed on Connect Canyons, send us an email to communications at canyonsdistrictorg.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to this episode of Connect Canyons. Connect with us on Twitter, facebook or Instagram at Canyons District or on our website, canyonsdistrictorg.